DonkeyPunch
Belmont you sound more like a Libertarian then a Republican.

Belmont and I are the last of an old order of Republicans with common sense.

Jesusfreak

DonkeyPunch
Belmont you sound more like a Libertarian then a Republican.

Belmont and I are the last of an old order of Republicans with common sense.

Like Obi-Wan and Yoda after the Jedi purge.

Sinister
And yet it's the government who takes care of people from military threats, terrorist threats, major health threats (US CDC), criminal threats (FBI). But threats to every day health are different? I don't understand that. There are poor people in Britain who can't afford expensive healthcare plans, not through laziness, but just because shit happens. People get raw deals that they can't get out of, no matter how hard they try. Why is it so bad for a government to provide national healthcare for those that sicken, those that injur themselves, without requiring you to have insurance? No one I know has ever been told to go to different hospitals, they're practically all NHS, you go to the nearest one to your accident or where you report to if it's not that severe.

You're making assumptions.

My point is that this new universal healthcare system seeks to TAKE OVER the one we have now, not compliment it. Seriously, you seem to know so much about America's short-comings… what was the last thing that the federal government got involved in that didn't get royally mucked up in bureaucratic bullshit, political-correctness, and red tape?

We do not have the resources to implement that kind of campaign without taxing the shit out of the general public.

So, here I am, paying for premium care, and I have to pay for everyone else's, too? Horseshit. I should have the option to NOT take it and do what I see fit. If the government can somehow pony up the dough for that kind of massive nation-wide campaign, by all means, let ‘em have it. I’m NOT paying for it if I don't want to use it.

City taxes for utilities and services? Sure. Sign me up. Military? Hell yes, I'll pay good tax dollars to our military. Donating to charities and programs like WIC, and to people that are down on their luck? Sure. I'll give whatever I can…

…signing over money to go to pay for useless government programs that enable abuse, neglect, laziness, and special-interest groups, no thank you.

I know what it's like to live BELOW the national poverty level, and NO healthcare. Yes, it sucks. It's why I worked my ass off to get where I am. I've been on unemployment before (note that this is not a “welfare program.” It's an insurance you pay for out of your check).

America's too big to start that kind of system without significant spending of money we DONT have. That funding has to come from somewhere, and it's me who's going to feel the kick. These hospitals are not going to have the same facilities and resources as they do now. It will be sub-par. There aren't enough resources. When the government has that kind of power in healthcare, they start getting the right to choose “who lives and who dies.”

It's not about “worthiness,” Iain. It never has been.

Sinister
Isn't the American dream “a government for the people, by the people”? Well that to me sounds like a welfare state, the government looks out for the people regardless of whether they're rich or poor. Wealth does not make you a worthier person. Wealth means you can splurge on material posessions and fast cars, it shouldn't be the only way to get treated.

…what?

It means that the government is there because the people allow it to be. We choose our leaders, and we (should) have the right to dictate policy. If the people say “no,” the government cannot say “too bad.” It's “For the people” because it's the people who have their best interests in mind.

Though this is not our current situation, it's the way it should be.

I'm not sure how you got “welfare state” out of that.

I'm guessing this post will probably just be ignored, but… here's my two cents:

John McCain and Barack Obama are both HORRIBLE choices for president, and neither candidate offers any real “change”… at ALL. They're both a couple of fascist, anti-American, two-faced globalist neo-cons. Obama, the so-called “liberal” banned the First amendment at a recent Berlin speech, before basically calling for globalization as the "only way“ to advance humanity and ”security.“ Total globalist propaganda. Obama isn't even anti-war. He won't even make a promise to withdraw from Iraq within four years! And McCain, the so-called ”conservative" candidate (who tried to join the Democratic Party but was rejected) is for HUGE federal government size & spending, among other non-conservative policies. BOTH McCain & Obama are war-mongerers and fear-mongerers. Both are members of the Council on Foreign Relations. And both McCain & Obama are advocates of, to at least some degree, the following issues/policies (which I for one am strongly opposed to), just to name a handful:

- The War on Terror
- The War on Drugs
- The War on “Global Warming”
- Gun Control
- Patriot Act
- Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
- North American Free Trade Agreement
- Illegal Immigration
- HUGE Government Spending
- Death Penalty
- Abortion
- Perpetuating the Federal Income Tax
- Perpetuating the Federal Reserve Bank
- Perpetuating the I.R.S.
- Both Oppose the Impeachment of President Bush
- Both Oppose a New 9/11 Investigation

Additionally….

Obama Supports:
- Nationalized Healthcare
- Income Redistribution

McCain:
- Supports National ID Card (I think Obama too)
- Opposes Homosexual Adoption Rights

I know there are many other issues, but those are off the top of my head. Bottom line: McCain & Obama both advocate unconstitutional policies. Both candidates, I whole-heartedly believe, would infringe upon our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 9th, & 10th Amendment rights, as is currently being done by the Bush Administration, and likely many more. And I seriously doubt either candidate would abolish the NSPD-51/HSPD-20 which would essentially give them, as President, dictatorial powers in the event of a (poorly & vaguely defined) “catastrophic emergency,” and unlawfully expand the power of the executive branch of federal government. Neither candidate is going to restore our Constitutional Republic, or our Rule of Law, and stop the growing police-state, foreign wars, et cetera. I believe both candidates would be complicit in the implementation of a “New World Order,” which seems frightfully nigh at this point. And before you blow me off as a “conspiracy nut,” I would urge, and indeed dare you, to watch the following videos, and to consider the evidence for yourself.

Obama in Berlin, Germany
Zbigniew Brzezinski: The Man Behind Obama (watch Obama “play dumb”)
The NWO
The New World Order on Trial
McCain Confronted in Colorado


….I'm not 100% sure who I am going to vote for in 2008, seeing as how my ideal choice, Ron Paul, is effectively out of the race for Presidency. Right now it's a toss-up between Libertarian Bob Barr, and Constitutionalist Chuck Baldwin, both of whom I have notable complaints with. But at least they're law-abiding, anti-globalist/NWO politicians. I'd even be okay with Ralph Nader at this point. I'm leaning toward Baldwin though. …I know that none of these guys have a chance in Hell, and obviously they're not going to win, but voting has everything to do with principles, and nothing to do with mathematical odds….

Jesusfreak

DonkeyPunch
Belmont you sound more like a Libertarian then a Republican.

Belmont and I are the last of an old order of Republicans with common sense.

You are so gentlemanly and learned, Colonel. Mint juleps on the veranda, anyone?

Sinister, let me put this is perspective. Just think of 75% of the American government being composed of Gordon Brown clones - on both sides!

Ghoulishfright
- Income Redistribution

Gee, that sounds a lot like….what was that “C” word….

…communication…colloquialism…convocation….no…

…oh yeah!

COMMUNISM!

There is the sole reason I hope Obama never sees an inauguration day.

Jesusfreak
Sinister, let me put this in perspective. Just think of 75% of the American government being composed of Gordon Brown clones - on both sides!

Excellent example of why government sucks! ….Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Vincent Belmont
COMMUNISM!

There is the sole reason I hope Obama never sees an inauguration day.

Yes. Neo-conservativism largely evolved from Trotsky-style Communism. Neocons are in many ways the antithesis of true conservatives.

wow I walk away for few hours and thing have really gotten interesting a least it is staying pretty civil.

Vincent Belmont

Ghoulishfright
- Income Redistribution

Gee, that sounds a lot like….what was that “C” word….

…communication…colloquialism…convocation….no…

…oh yeah!

COMMUNISM!

There is the sole reason I hope Obama never sees an inauguration day.

I was thinking of a totally different c word, but after working for Albanians Communism sounds awesome

I like Brock cuase well. I think he has what it takes to stop the ongoing wars that the USA has with other places I really don't like mcain cuase we he started out all I herd out of his mouth was “draft.”