Tis perfectly ok. Glad I'm actually able to make sense.

Why do I feel it wasn't necessary….

What, exactly, was unnecessary?

Why the necessity to talk with unnecessary authority, like a sergent in front of soldiers?

This post sounds like the last one where you realised that you took the wrong road under this kind of behaviour. I mean, isn't it the best way to find unnecessary conflicts? I saw so many fight occured because of a simple word…

The words of my questions are neutral, soft and spiritual. I was not talking about anything regarding the situation of the comic book. I was wondering why you are so much on the offensive.

People, please don't fight.

Sinister, I understand your point when you say that in order for it to be considered a scam, Seb would have had to con us from the beginning. However, Gjustis makes several good points in his Jan 25, 2008 5:28 PM post, such as it not having to start out as a scam for it to have turned into one, and the continual lies that have been made over the past three years. That's one of the reason why I started archiving the news about the book.

His financial situation isn't as much of an issue as he makes it seem due to two things.

1. He has all of the money from pre-orders with Graham Cracker Comics (GCC) and the pre-orders made directly with him. That's several thousand dollars right there that SHOULD have been used to print the book. (John from GCC confided in me that his company is “out thousands more than anyone else in this debacle.”) So, what is Seb doing with all of this money? I won't try to pretend that I know how much it costs to print a 1,000 copies of a book, but surely the SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS that he already has would cover it. And if not, option #2 could pick up the remainder.

2. Take out a credit card or a loan to pay for the printing costs. I actually mentioned this to Seb on his defunct Weaver Hall message board back in February 2006 and he adamantly refused to consider this funding option. Any good business would take out a loan or a credit card as start-up capital and then pay it back as soon as the profits start rolling in, which they hope would be very soon in order for the business to remain in business. Of course, the keyword there is good business. I can only think of two reasons why he would refuse to consider this option. One is that he doesn't want to have payments to make for many years in the future (which makes him selfish for thinking only about himself in this situation). The other is that perhaps his credit is so bad that no bank would give him a loan or a credit card.

Getting back to the scam aspect of it. It's true what Sinister said about it not starting out as a scam (well, I presume it didn't), but when you read all of Seb's lies that I've archived on my page, you'll definitely see that it has become one and has been one since 2005. Here are some excerpts from Seb's messages to prove my point. Go to my page to read the full text and more news items.

June 26, 2005
As soon as the book are printed (this summer) I will email you all so you know exactly when they are on your way.

First time he gave a definitive release date: Summer 2005. Obviously it would not be met.

June 26, 2005
Only 1000 copies will be printed. Graham Cracker Comics have ordered through us 300 copies, and we have about 350 orders. Leaving 350 books available for order. Once they are sold it'll be over since I won't be reprinting this trade in either hard or soft cover format.

Let's add this up shall we. The book costs $24.95, and another $5.00 for shipping, so that's $29.95 total paid for each copy. To be fair, I'll just tally the cost for the book itself.

300 x $24.95 = $7,485.00 (paid to Graham Crackers, which they in turn paid to Seb*)
350 x $24.95 = $8,732.50 (paid directly to Seb)
$7,485.00 + $8,732.50 = $16,217.50 (grand total that Seb accepted for the pre-orders)

*Since I assume that Graham Crackers wanted to make a profit, the $24.95 they were charging was probably more than they paid to Seb. But even if they were only paying Seb $12.50 per book and keeping the other half for themselves as profit, that would mean that they paid Seb $3,750 (300 x $12.50). So add that to the amount Seb got directly, and that's still $12,482.50 that Seb took in. Surely $12,482.50 is enough to pay for $1,000 copies of the book to be printed. And don't forget, this is only the number of orders Seb and GCC took in as of June 26, 2005 - five months after pre-orders were started to be accepted. By the time GCC and Seb stopped taking pre-orders, I'm sure that many more orders were placed, and thus even MORE money was accepted by Seb.

September 24, 2005
First I'd like to address the delay in publishing the Legion Hard Cover. The reason this is taking so long is that I am awaiting one final answer before going to press with it. For those wondering, this is regarding the postface. I must stress that the reason for the delay is not financial, but regarding the answer in question. As some of you may know I am now working for a printer so it is obvious the printing side of things is not a problem. I expect the answer to come to me within 2 weeks, only then will I be able to go to print whether the answer being positive or not.

HOT DAMN! This is the most damning evidence against Seb and probably the #1 proof that this turned into a scam.

He said right there that the delay is because of the postface (presumably the one to be written by Dan Aykroyd), and NOT a financial problem. Then he goes on to mention that he works for a printer, so printing the book isn't going to be a problem. And finally he concludes by saying that whether Dan will or will not write the postface, he will go to print with the book no later than two weeks from Sept. 24th.

So why didn't he start printing the book two weeks later, regardless of Dan's response, if there was no problem financially and if he already had connections with a printer?!? Clearly he said he'd print it, but here we are two and a half years later and it hasn't been printed.

Now that we have the 20-20 hindsight, anyone still want to say this isn't a scam? If you're still not convinced, let's move on shall we and let Seb damn himself some more…

October 19, 2005
Please note that Halloween 2005 will be the last day to pre-order the Ghostbusters Legion Hard Cover Limited Collectors Edtion.

Ok, this gels with his two-week plan, though I think the 19th is more like three to four weeks later. It's not the Summer 2005 release date he promised on June 26th, but it's still a definitive cut-off date. This made it seem like the book would get released in 2005 after all.

November 9, 2005
Ordering has closed for the Legion Hard Cover Trade. We want to thank all that have ordered!

A definitive closure to the pre-orders, so the printing should have started at this point.

November 9, 2005
The email notifications were sent today to all customers who have ordered the book.

This confirms that the books will start shipping soon. With any luck, we would have gotten the books in our hands by Christmas. Of course, we know now that that wouldn't be the case.

We would have to wait several months before we'd hear back from Seb.

January 31, 2006
First off, the Hard Cover situation. The only reason why it is impossibly delayed (not canceled) is caused by a low ordering versus a high printing cost. Now is it fans fault ? Hell no. Is it my fault ? Who else really, so yes. The only way for me to compensate for the low ordering is to finance the difference myself, hence making this process very slow.

WTF! I thought Seb said back on September 24th that the reason for the delay was NOT financial problems. You mean he -gasp- LIED! I call bullshit.

Oh, and what's so bad about Seb having to finance the difference himself. A good businessman puts the financial responsibility on HIS shoulders, not his customers.

As previously mentioned, on February 1, 2006 I exchanged messages with Seb on his forum when he brought up the idea of taking money for lithographs and using that money to fund the cost of printing the books. You can read that exchange by going to my page.

March 29, 2006
I have to address the refund requests situation that has been growing lately. What I am doing right now is working on getting financing to complete the necessary amount to publish the HC. Refund requests were low in the past and I was able to do them. Now there is a lot more and I can't absorb that many requests. It's a case of me making 1 step forward getting the funds to publish, and 2 steps back to refund customers who are perfectly legitimate in requesting a refund.

HOLY SHIT! He took the money but doesn't have it to pay back to his customers who want a refund?!? What in the blue hell did he do with it all? What did he spend it on? Surely it wasn't the book. If it was the Ecto-1 litho, did anyone who gave him money for the book expressly permit him to spend it on a different product rather than the one they paid for? I'd bet that no one did. I smell scam. Anyone care to argue different? I'd love to see how someone else could spin this.

May 15, 2006
I am leaving Weaver Hall in the hands of Moderators until I return with good news. I have come to the conclusion that whatever I might say until then causes more trouble than anything. Even if I won't be reading, posting or visiting the place while I'm gone, I will be working out the final financial details. I will only come back when I have the release date for the hard cover.

A businessman who goes into hiding is NOT a good thing… and very bad for business.

March 1, 2007
The Ecto-1 Lithograph is now available. This is not a pre-order. Lithographs are already printed and ready to ship.

First definitive mention of a NEW product being made available for sale, but no word on the product that people paid him money for over two years ago. A good businessman, especially one who's going at it alone, doesn't start a new product without finishing an old one first.

May 29, 2007
Update your shipping address online. You have until August 31st, 2007 to update your shipping address. Ghostbusters : Legion ships in Fall 2007. On September 1st, 2007 we will close this page and download the new records that will be used to ship all books. Before shipping your order we will send you an email (the one we have on record), making sure one last time that we are sending it at the correct address.

This is the third time he's given us a definitive cut-off and/or release date for the book. Summer 2005; October 31, 2005; and now Fall 2007. Of course, ALL would be lies.

October 1, 2007
The release date of the Ghostbusters Legion TPB will be announced upon confirmation of the delivery date by the printer.

This made it seem like the book was finally getting ready to be released, and in Fall 2007 no less. Sadly, this would not be the case. Sadder still, this is the last bit of news Seb has posted about the Legion book as of January 26, 2008.

Rather than concentrate his time and energy on the Legion book, he chose to focus on printing four lithographs for each of the Ghostbusters. On January 13, 2008 he posted to his website that the four lithos are available for pre-order with the following item codes:
Venkman : NOV07 3541 I
Zeddemore : DEC07 3628 I
Stantz : JAN08 3596 I
Spengler : coming soon

Why he's working on four more different products (five when you add in the Ecto-1 litho) and not the one that people paid him for over three years ago is beyond me.

As if that wasn't strange enough, sometime in December 2007 he closed his Weaver Hall message board (the domain name now redirects to the 88MPH website). Why if I didn't know better, I'd think that he didn't want to hear from his ripped off customers anymore.

This wraps up this brief multi-year history of the book. There will be a brief Q&A session followed by refreshments in the lobby.

The one thing that I don't understand: Why hasn't Sony taken any legal action against Sebastien? Surely they must have some legal grounds to sue a licensee who has used THEIR property (the Ghostbusters name, characters, etc.) in a fraudulent manner. I wonder if they're even aware of the situation. If anyone has connections with Sony, perhaps you should let them know. It definitely won't be cost prohibitive for Sony to sue him :-)

MuthaPussBucket
<adjusts>


The other lithos are for sale?

They're pre-orders… and we all know how well Seb does with pre-orders.

I should have made that clear in my original message. Sorry.

I order my monthly comics from DCBService and decided to order a third Legion book (I've already paid for two from Seb in 05) and then when the Lithos came along I pre-ordered two of those as well. If anything happens or they never see the light of day DCBS credits me so I wasn't worried.

The other day I checked my account on DCBS and saw that the Legion TPB (sol. 7-07) has been canceled as well as the Winston Litho. Peter and Ray appear still on schedule. That's too bad, because I was looking forward to getting all four prints and framing them.

I'll take a guess that there wasn't enough orders for Winston.

This might be a fruitless venture, but has anyone considered contacting Dan Aykroyd on his website http://www.thebluesmobile.com/ concerning this fiasco? (Click on “Talk to Elwood”)

As with any celebrity website, you can't email him directly, but you at least get in contact with one of his agents. Aykroyd may not be able to do much seeing he's not some Sony executive, but seeing the franchise seems to mean alot to him, it might be worth at least making him aware of it.

If nothing else, if there is some response back from his people, we may at least be able to find out if he even was actually supposed to write the preface, or if that was just another one of Clavet's lies.

Just throwing this out in case no one's thought of this yet… could be helpful…

spookcentral
People, please don't fight.

Sinister, I understand your point when you say that in order for it to be considered a scam, Seb would have had to con us from the beginning. However, Gjustis makes several good points in his Jan 25, 2008 5:28 PM post, such as it not having to start out as a scam for it to have turned into one, and the continual lies that have been made over the past three years. That's one of the reason why I started archiving the news about the book.

His financial situation isn't as much of an issue as he makes it seem due to two things.

1. He has all of the money from pre-orders with Graham Cracker Comics (GCC) and the pre-orders made directly with him. That's several thousand dollars right there that SHOULD have been used to print the book. (John from GCC confided in me that his company is “out thousands more than anyone else in this debacle.”) So, what is Seb doing with all of this money? I won't try to pretend that I know how much it costs to print a 1,000 copies of a book, but surely the SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS that he already has would cover it. And if not, option #2 could pick up the remainder.

2. Take out a credit card or a loan to pay for the printing costs. I actually mentioned this to Seb on his defunct Weaver Hall message board back in February 2006 and he adamantly refused to consider this funding option. Any good business would take out a loan or a credit card as start-up capital and then pay it back as soon as the profits start rolling in, which they hope would be very soon in order for the business to remain in business. Of course, the keyword there is good business. I can only think of two reasons why he would refuse to consider this option. One is that he doesn't want to have payments to make for many years in the future (which makes him selfish for thinking only about himself in this situation). The other is that perhaps his credit is so bad that no bank would give him a loan or a credit card.

Getting back to the scam aspect of it. It's true what Sinister said about it not starting out as a scam (well, I presume it didn't), but when you read all of Seb's lies that I've archived on my page, you'll definitely see that it has become one and has been one since 2005. Here are some excerpts from Seb's messages to prove my point. Go to my page to read the full text and more news items.

June 26, 2005
As soon as the book are printed (this summer) I will email you all so you know exactly when they are on your way.

First time he gave a definitive release date: Summer 2005. Obviously it would not be met.

June 26, 2005
Only 1000 copies will be printed. Graham Cracker Comics have ordered through us 300 copies, and we have about 350 orders. Leaving 350 books available for order. Once they are sold it'll be over since I won't be reprinting this trade in either hard or soft cover format.

Let's add this up shall we. The book costs $24.95, and another $5.00 for shipping, so that's $29.95 total paid for each copy. To be fair, I'll just tally the cost for the book itself.

300 x $24.95 = $7,485.00 (paid to Graham Crackers, which they in turn paid to Seb*)
350 x $24.95 = $8,732.50 (paid directly to Seb)
$7,485.00 + $8,732.50 = $16,217.50 (grand total that Seb accepted for the pre-orders)

*Since I assume that Graham Crackers wanted to make a profit, the $24.95 they were charging was probably more than they paid to Seb. But even if they were only paying Seb $12.50 per book and keeping the other half for themselves as profit, that would mean that they paid Seb $3,750 (300 x $12.50). So add that to the amount Seb got directly, and that's still $12,482.50 that Seb took in. Surely $12,482.50 is enough to pay for $1,000 copies of the book to be printed. And don't forget, this is only the number of orders Seb and GCC took in as of June 26, 2005 - five months after pre-orders were started to be accepted. By the time GCC and Seb stopped taking pre-orders, I'm sure that many more orders were placed, and thus even MORE money was accepted by Seb.

September 24, 2005
First I'd like to address the delay in publishing the Legion Hard Cover. The reason this is taking so long is that I am awaiting one final answer before going to press with it. For those wondering, this is regarding the postface. I must stress that the reason for the delay is not financial, but regarding the answer in question. As some of you may know I am now working for a printer so it is obvious the printing side of things is not a problem. I expect the answer to come to me within 2 weeks, only then will I be able to go to print whether the answer being positive or not.

HOT DAMN! This is the most damning evidence against Seb and probably the #1 proof that this turned into a scam.

He said right there that the delay is because of the postface (presumably the one to be written by Dan Aykroyd), and NOT a financial problem. Then he goes on to mention that he works for a printer, so printing the book isn't going to be a problem. And finally he concludes by saying that whether Dan will or will not write the postface, he will go to print with the book no later than two weeks from Sept. 24th.

So why didn't he start printing the book two weeks later, regardless of Dan's response, if there was no problem financially and if he already had connections with a printer?!? Clearly he said he'd print it, but here we are two and a half years later and it hasn't been printed.

Now that we have the 20-20 hindsight, anyone still want to say this isn't a scam? If you're still not convinced, let's move on shall we and let Seb damn himself some more…

October 19, 2005
Please note that Halloween 2005 will be the last day to pre-order the Ghostbusters Legion Hard Cover Limited Collectors Edtion.

Ok, this gels with his two-week plan, though I think the 19th is more like three to four weeks later. It's not the Summer 2005 release date he promised on June 26th, but it's still a definitive cut-off date. This made it seem like the book would get released in 2005 after all.

November 9, 2005
Ordering has closed for the Legion Hard Cover Trade. We want to thank all that have ordered!

A definitive closure to the pre-orders, so the printing should have started at this point.

November 9, 2005
The email notifications were sent today to all customers who have ordered the book.

This confirms that the books will start shipping soon. With any luck, we would have gotten the books in our hands by Christmas. Of course, we know now that that wouldn't be the case.

We would have to wait several months before we'd hear back from Seb.

January 31, 2006
First off, the Hard Cover situation. The only reason why it is impossibly delayed (not canceled) is caused by a low ordering versus a high printing cost. Now is it fans fault ? Hell no. Is it my fault ? Who else really, so yes. The only way for me to compensate for the low ordering is to finance the difference myself, hence making this process very slow.

WTF! I thought Seb said back on September 24th that the reason for the delay was NOT financial problems. You mean he -gasp- LIED! I call bullshit.

Oh, and what's so bad about Seb having to finance the difference himself. A good businessman puts the financial responsibility on HIS shoulders, not his customers.

As previously mentioned, on February 1, 2006 I exchanged messages with Seb on his forum when he brought up the idea of taking money for lithographs and using that money to fund the cost of printing the books. You can read that exchange by going to my page.

March 29, 2006
I have to address the refund requests situation that has been growing lately. What I am doing right now is working on getting financing to complete the necessary amount to publish the HC. Refund requests were low in the past and I was able to do them. Now there is a lot more and I can't absorb that many requests. It's a case of me making 1 step forward getting the funds to publish, and 2 steps back to refund customers who are perfectly legitimate in requesting a refund.

HOLY SHIT! He took the money but doesn't have it to pay back to his customers who want a refund?!? What in the blue hell did he do with it all? What did he spend it on? Surely it wasn't the book. If it was the Ecto-1 litho, did anyone who gave him money for the book expressly permit him to spend it on a different product rather than the one they paid for? I'd bet that no one did. I smell scam. Anyone care to argue different? I'd love to see how someone else could spin this.

May 15, 2006
I am leaving Weaver Hall in the hands of Moderators until I return with good news. I have come to the conclusion that whatever I might say until then causes more trouble than anything. Even if I won't be reading, posting or visiting the place while I'm gone, I will be working out the final financial details. I will only come back when I have the release date for the hard cover.

A businessman who goes into hiding is NOT a good thing… and very bad for business.

March 1, 2007
The Ecto-1 Lithograph is now available. This is not a pre-order. Lithographs are already printed and ready to ship.

First definitive mention of a NEW product being made available for sale, but no word on the product that people paid him money for over two years ago. A good businessman, especially one who's going at it alone, doesn't start a new product without finishing an old one first.

May 29, 2007
Update your shipping address online. You have until August 31st, 2007 to update your shipping address. Ghostbusters : Legion ships in Fall 2007. On September 1st, 2007 we will close this page and download the new records that will be used to ship all books. Before shipping your order we will send you an email (the one we have on record), making sure one last time that we are sending it at the correct address.

This is the third time he's given us a definitive cut-off and/or release date for the book. Summer 2005; October 31, 2005; and now Fall 2007. Of course, ALL would be lies.

October 1, 2007
The release date of the Ghostbusters Legion TPB will be announced upon confirmation of the delivery date by the printer.

This made it seem like the book was finally getting ready to be released, and in Fall 2007 no less. Sadly, this would not be the case. Sadder still, this is the last bit of news Seb has posted about the Legion book as of January 26, 2008.

Rather than concentrate his time and energy on the Legion book, he chose to focus on printing four lithographs for each of the Ghostbusters. On January 13, 2008 he posted to his website that the four lithos are available for pre-order with the following item codes:
Venkman : NOV07 3541 I
Zeddemore : DEC07 3628 I
Stantz : JAN08 3596 I
Spengler : coming soon

Why he's working on four more different products (five when you add in the Ecto-1 litho) and not the one that people paid him for over three years ago is beyond me.

As if that wasn't strange enough, sometime in December 2007 he closed his Weaver Hall message board (the domain name now redirects to the 88MPH website). Why if I didn't know better, I'd think that he didn't want to hear from his ripped off customers anymore.

This wraps up this brief multi-year history of the book. There will be a brief Q&A session followed by refreshments in the lobby.

The one thing that I don't understand: Why hasn't Sony taken any legal action against Sebastien? Surely they must have some legal grounds to sue a licensee who has used THEIR property (the Ghostbusters name, characters, etc.) in a fraudulent manner. I wonder if they're even aware of the situation. If anyone has connections with Sony, perhaps you should let them know. It definitely won't be cost prohibitive for Sony to sue him :-)

I appreciate this round up of statements issued by Seb. I'll admit, he's not making things look good for himself…

*sigh*

I'd still like to try and believe that he's just a collossal idiot and not a scam artist but he really isn't helping his case.

The process of defining scam artist at this point is moot. Basically, we wanted a product, we ordered it, we didn't get it.


I am aware that a few people ordered their Ecto-1 lithos and got them, right?

And while I would like the posters of the boys, I think a wait and see might be in order.

At least, through all this crap, 4 Ghostbuster issues(5 with Z mini) were released and I own them. And they're not bad, so that's something.

A “wait and see?” After three years and a bucket brimming with lies and deception?

(*egon)

MuthaPussBucket
At least, through all this crap, 4 Ghostbuster issues(5 with Z mini) were released and I own them. And they're not bad, so that's something.

Unless you waited and just paid for the HC. In that case, it's nothing.

But again, I digress….Paul's about summed it up.

Right, I was speaking more for me.

But, yeah, I just meant, I'd like the posters…so you know…I'd wait and see. People got their Ecto lithos…its not totally out of the question….


…maybe…


…I mean…


…you're right, forget it.