sandmanfvr;165112
Bingo! I agree 100%, do it right the whole way through.



These silly comments always make me laugh. He “meddled” with Star Wars? Really? He fucking created Star Wars when some of us weren't even born or just little. He owns it and it is HIS creation, he can do as he pleases. I actually like the Prequel trilogy just as good as the original, some parts better then the original, and I like the new Indy because I didn't sit for years thinking my head what Lucas SHOULD do and then being disappointed. I let him tell HIS story and was entertained. Meddled, HA!

Meddle is probably the wrong word, since it is his creation, but he certainly went back and messed with the original triology in ways that he didn't need to. For example, putting Hayden Christensen in at the end of Return of the Jedi. That was something that he shouldn't have done in a lot of people's eyes.

And just because its his creation doesn't mean he's free from criticism just like everyone else who creates something. He created something that was fantastic when originally released. The “updates” he has chosen to make on it are just as open to criticism as the original film was.

Doctor Venkman;165119
Meddle is probably the wrong word, since it is his creation, but he certainly went back and messed with the original triology in ways that he didn't need to. For example, putting Hayden Christensen in at the end of Return of the Jedi. That was something that he shouldn't have done in a lot of people's eyes.

And just because its his creation doesn't mean he's free from criticism just like everyone else who creates something. He created something that was fantastic when originally released. The “updates” he has chosen to make on it are just as open to criticism as the original film was.

I'm an original trilogy fan…I just came back from celebration V in florida and saw george lucas…I completely liked the idea of putting hayden in there as a young anakin…it was genius linking the two trilogies like that..

the truth is..that if we had lucas in charge of the ghostbusters blueray…it would have been a set..the two movies with new features and THX sound with absolutely beautiful colors and effects. Hes working on blueray star wars right now and its definitely going to be worth the wait..not like this crappy ghostbusters blueray

Don't forget about the Back To the Future Trilogy Blu-Ray set that is about to be released, that was made a year after Ghostbusters and that Blu-Ray picture and sound quality is meant to be out of this world according to the people who have seen it.

sandmanfvr;165051
You are talking about grain, and over sharpening can cause grain on top of grain already in the film. Do it yourself with a photo and see for yourself. I know there is some grain there, but the process Sony used added to the grain.

devilmanozzy sigh all you want, do it yourself! I put the files on my dropbox, uncompressed. The first one is a STRAIGHT rip from the DVD via VLC player. Download Irfanview program (Google it) and then hold SHIFT and hit S FOUR times. You will get the second photo, over sharpened.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7736853/egon1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7736853/egon2.jpg

Frankly I don't care if anybody doesn't believe me, as I know over sharpening causes grain as I have done it before and I provide proof and still hear “fake”. Film grain is in the film, I see that, but digital restorations can ADD film grain and Sony did this. I am giving the original DVD rip photo for others to try, how about TRYING it before calling fake? Sheesh so much anger on this forum….

I should have stressed you could have also used one hell of a bad compression, but you only care about being “right”.

So if you disagree with the link I posted? Cause that goes to Spook Central which is run by Paul Rudoff. Read over his page, he pretty well explains how he gets his photos.

I ain't interested in fighting with you, but your picture from the Blu-ray looks changed.

devilmanozzy;165128
I should have stressed you could have also used one hell of a bad compression, but you only care about being “right”.

So if you disagree with the link I posted? Cause that goes to Spook Central which is run by Paul Rudoff. Read over his page, he pretty well explains how he gets his photos.

I ain't interested in fighting with you, but your picture from the Blu-ray looks changed.

I read it and you again don't read my post well. I said these are shot from the DVD, again read and understand my post. I am showing that a perfectly clear image can be made to be grainy with editing. I am not fighting with you either, but you don't read and pay attention and thus you miss the point and your wanting to be right makes it silly. The blu ray is the same, in my opinion, as to much sharpening is done. All I am showing, from my years of image and video editing (as an amateur not pro) is that clear images can and are distorted with filter abuse. Again, download the image with is from the DVD (again DVD) that is full quality and run it through any photo tool so that you see sharpening causes problems, which is what Sony did in my opinion. Argueing with me cause you didn't understand my post makes this funny.

Doctor Venkman;165119
Meddle is probably the wrong word, since it is his creation, but he certainly went back and messed with the original triology in ways that he didn't need to. For example, putting Hayden Christensen in at the end of Return of the Jedi. That was something that he shouldn't have done in a lot of people's eyes.

And just because its his creation doesn't mean he's free from criticism just like everyone else who creates something. He created something that was fantastic when originally released. The “updates” he has chosen to make on it are just as open to criticism as the original film was.

He didn't need to do? It is his work and he wanted to COMPLETE it, which he has been quoted in interviews. He wanted the Jaba scene in there, he needed to put Hayden to make the whole “Circle” work. Yes he is open to criticism, but he never messed with/tamper/meddled, it was his dream to complete the trilogy and add the scenes he couldn't afford to do in 1970's tech.

sandmanfvr;165133
I read it and you again don't read my post well. I said these are shot from the DVD, again read and understand my post. I am showing that a perfectly clear image can be made to be grainy with editing. I am not fighting with you either, but you don't read and pay attention and thus you miss the point and your wanting to be right makes it silly. The blu ray is the same, in my opinion, as to much sharpening is done. All I am showing, from my years of image and video editing (as an amateur not pro) is that clear images can and are distorted with filter abuse. Again, download the image with is from the DVD (again DVD) that is full quality and run it through any photo tool so that you see sharpening causes problems, which is what Sony did in my opinion. Argueing with me cause you didn't understand my post makes this funny.

It wasn't very clear in your post that you were trying to show that an image can be oversharpened. That's not even a point that needs to be made. We all know that. It seemed like you were trying to pass it off that the Blu-Ray looks like your second image which it obviously doesn't.

sandmanfvr;165133
He didn't need to do? It is his work and he wanted to COMPLETE it, which he has been quoted in interviews. He wanted the Jaba scene in there, he needed to put Hayden to make the whole “Circle” work. Yes he is open to criticism, but he never messed with/tamper/meddled, it was his dream to complete the trilogy and add the scenes he couldn't afford to do in 1970's tech.

That's a matter of opinion. If people think the trilogy was fine the way it was they're entitled to that opinion. Lucas made the movies the way he was able to in the 1970's. He had no idea what technology would be available 30 years later, so for him to say that its what he always wanted is suspicious. What if more techonology comes out in another 30 years, that allows him to do even more to the movies? Will he still say that he is re-releasing it again because its now what he always wanted to do? I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. He's doing things to the movies that some will like and others will hate. All are entitled to their opinions.

sandmanfvr;165133
I read it and you again don't read my post well. I said these are shot from the DVD, again read and understand my post. I am showing that a perfectly clear image can be made to be grainy with editing. I am not fighting with you either, but you don't read and pay attention and thus you miss the point and your wanting to be right makes it silly. The blu ray is the same, in my opinion, as to much sharpening is done. All I am showing, from my years of image and video editing (as an amateur not pro) is that clear images can and are distorted with filter abuse. Again, download the image with is from the DVD (again DVD) that is full quality and run it through any photo tool so that you see sharpening causes problems, which is what Sony did in my opinion. Argueing with me cause you didn't understand my post makes this funny.

You didn't in that post or the last one address the blu-ray picture. I don't even care about the first picture. Is the second picture from the Blu-ray? If so, explain how you got it. You keep talking about the DVD one. I don't care about that one. Its not what I'm arguing about. You need to explain this better, cause this is what I read over here based on this:

sandmanfvr
You are talking about grain, and over sharpening can cause grain on top of grain already in the film. Do it yourself with a photo and see for yourself. I know there is some grain there, but the process Sony used added to the grain.

devilmanozzy sigh all you want, do it yourself! I put the files on my dropbox, uncompressed. The first one is a STRAIGHT rip from the DVD via VLC player. Download Irfanview program (Google it) and then hold SHIFT and hit S FOUR times. You will get the second photo, over sharpened.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7736853/egon1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7736853/egon2.jpg

Frankly I don't care if anybody doesn't believe me, as I know over sharpening causes grain as I have done it before and I provide proof and still hear “fake”. Film grain is in the film, I see that, but digital restorations can ADD film grain and Sony did this. I am giving the original DVD rip photo for others to try, how about TRYING it before calling fake? Sheesh so much anger on this forum….

Where is the term Blu-ray in the whole thing?!

Doctor Venkman;165135
It wasn't very clear in your post that you were trying to show that an image can be oversharpened. That's not even a point that needs to be made. We all know that. It seemed like you were trying to pass it off that the Blu-Ray looks like your second image which it obviously doesn't.



That's a matter of opinion. If people think the trilogy was fine the way it was they're entitled to that opinion. Lucas made the movies the way he was able to in the 1970's. He had no idea what technology would be available 30 years later, so for him to say that its what he always wanted is suspicious. What if more techonology comes out in another 30 years, that allows him to do even more to the movies? Will he still say that he is re-releasing it again because its now what he always wanted to do? I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. He's doing things to the movies that some will like and others will hate. All are entitled to their opinions.

No so cut and dry. First, film grain is not “always there” as masters kept at film studios and some in underground salt mines (yes salt to keep moisture out) are in pristine condition and don't have much if any grain. Film grain and the “hairs” we see on films in theaters is the lower quality copies they have and if the theaters didn't take care of the reels, well you saw it on screen. Second film grain in this case (GB Blu Ray)is caused by over SHARPENING the film. See my attached photos. I took that from the DVD with VLC (Had to re size for uploads. Can the forums be changed to allow bigger images at least?). The egon1 is a sized down rip from the DVD, then egon2 has been ran through a sharpening procedure to over sharpen it. Video does the same thing, I know I have done it. I am not saying grain isn't on the film, but some film is almost grain free if not grain free, it is way it is digitized and restored. Lazy or cheap software/software methods can add TONS of film artifacts and make video look like shit. Seeing how Indiana Jones was cleaned up for DVD, I know GB was done poorly. Sony didn't give a shit, got it in a PC/MAC and sharpened the hell out of it. I have Terminator on Blu Ray, the detail is fantastic and no grain. It can be done, Sony didn't try enough.

Very clear to me since I capitalized DVD and VLC and told exactly what I did, it comes down to not reading and seeing what I am saying as I stated from that post it was a DVD rip I ran through software to SIMULATE grain, not the Blu Ray. Nobody is listening, so no sense in arguing.

Matter of opinion yes, but he can redo it as much as he wants because it is his intellictual property and his “baby” he worked on. To many fans forget who owns the Star Wars IP and think “I am a fan, I own it as much as Lucas” (Been told that to my face) and it is silly.

devilmanozzy;165137
You didn't in that post or the last one address the blu-ray picture. I don't even care about the first picture. Is the second picture from the Blu-ray? If so, explain how you got it. You keep talking about the DVD one. I don't care about that one. Its not what I'm arguing about. You need to explain this better, cause this is what I read over here based on this:



Where is the term Blu-ray in the whole thing?!

Are you illiterate man? HERE:

The first one is a STRAIGHT rip from the DVD via VLC player. Download Irfanview program (Google it) and then hold SHIFT and hit S FOUR times. You will get the second photo, over sharpened.

I mean damn I say exactly where I got it from and I was talking about how the Blu Ray is an example of over sharpening (in my first post)and I USED THE DVD RIP as an example. My God, read something and not post “you are wrong” if you don't understand it, but I posted it twice where I got the images from, R E A D. I think you are picking at “not understanding” because you didn't read it correctly and jumped the gun to post.

sandmanfvr;165138
Very clear to be since I capitalized DVD and VLC and told exactly what I did, it comes down to not reading and seeing what I am saying as I stated from that post it was a DVD rip I ran through software to SIMULATE grain, not the Blu Ray. Nobody is listening, so no sense in arguing.

Ok, so you just said its not a actual screen cap from the blu-ray? Ok good, so its a fake/or as you say simulate a blu-ray look. Why didn't you say that freckin' 3 posts ago? God man give straight answers, then explain. No one wants to waste they time making fakes. lol