So yesterday I went to my algebra math class for the first day of the new semester. As the professor handed out the syllabus she explained to us how all homework will be done on an internet website (“My Math Lab” the website is called). This website was created by the publishers of the algebra textbook we were told to purchase from the college's bookstore, it costs about $150. I bought mine used on the internet, but remember being told it was about $150 from the college. BUT to use this website you need to register using a code that comes with the book. Any book that has had its code used before requires students to purchase a new code online for $50.

The algebra classes I had in past semesters also instructed us to register at this website. Though it wasn't mandatory. Being nothing more than an online version of the textbook, we could do the same exact math problems available online in the textbooks. Then show the professor our work and answers in a notebook.

The professors had even warned us that do to the fact it's online, they can't see the work we did to solve the math equations. Therefore, NO half credit would be given for getting the problem almost correct. This is very important since many students make one small mistake but get most of the problem correct. Plus, the professor can see the student's error and show the mistake. When online the professor only sees a right answer or a wrong answer, so it's impossible to give credit for making an honest attempt.

I have already withdrawn from this algebra class and replaced it with a different class. Though I did explain the situation to the advisor which I spoke with while switching classes. I mentioned the online registry code for each textbook, and how it was nothing but a way to make money by forcing students to buy new textbooks each semester. Then the advisor said that all college level algebra classes do the homework online now. However, there is a college level math class I found, and it doesn't require this online website, so I'll be taking that next semester.

Never have I been all that great at algebra. Throughout high school I noticed how the "smart students“, whom algebra came easy for were praised by teachers. While the other students, such as myself, were tormented for not being better at it.

During my first algebra class after finishing high school a student asked the professor, ”Why do we have to learn this? None of us here plan on working a job that requires us to know this.“ The professor's response was, ”You need to know this in order to get your degree, and you need your degree to get a good job.“

What kind of reasoning is that? What good is an education that has taught a student nothing of use to him?

What if instead of algebra, we were being taught how to balance a beach ball on our noises. And all the students who didn't have the physical and mental talents to do it were told to do better and tormented over it. Would the wrong doing in a situation like that be obvious enough for the professors and students to notice?

And what is a ”good job“?

Just as there are people who prefer doing algebra because they're good at it and enjoy it, there are people who prefer doing a particular job because they're good at it and enjoy it.

A man who works at McDoanlds may like his job and be happy doing it. Who the hell has the right to tell him his job is a crappy bad job? That same man working at McDonalds may be miserable working an upper class desk job, or whatever type of job people consider a ”good job“ these days.

That's as foolish as someone saying spinach is a ”bad food“, and ice-cream is a ”good food". Maybe for some people, but not everyone.

I'm sorry to hear your frustration, but as a college professor myself, I'll side with your teacher. We just want you to succeed later in life, whether you're happy as a corporate executive making millions or flipping burgers making minimum wage.

To respond to this quote by your professor:

During my first algebra class after finishing high school a student asked the professor, “Why do we have to learn this? None of us here plan on working a job that requires us to know this.” The professor's response was, “You need to know this in order to get your degree, and you need your degree to get a good job.”

Yeah, you probably won't use algebra in your day to day life, but you need to complete it to get your degree. A college degree does say a lot to employers - you've worked hard, you're committed, and that you can do the work that's dished at you. So even though most college topics aren't practical in life, it shows you've put in the time and that you can follow directions and solve problems on your own. Do you need a college degree to be successful? No, but most employers would want you to have one if they're going to risk shelling you out a salary, wages, health insurance, stock options, etc.

I'm glad that you posted this on the ghostbusters.net site. Although fictional, Ray, Egon, Peter, and even Winston (per the GBTVG) all have PhDs. I'd say that a good decision was made in making these guys scientists and not dead-beats, inspiring a generation to get educated and degrees, especially those interested in physics, engineering, science, mythology, and even parapsychology.

Best of luck to you, and I personally think it's wrong for students to pay for a registration code and online service on their own dime so that instructors can view your work. The school should be picking up the tab.

exo95er could possibly have posted the most intellegent thing said on here all day and this is coming from someone crawling home at 4:30 in the morning from a night of shenaniguns.

You know what I do, Big Mac?

I avoid online classes if I can help it, and I only take them as a last resort. Also, I have a job AT school (I work in the Media Services department pushing carts around and making myself as useful as I can), even though it doesn't pay enough to make up for how much I pay the school in order to attend and keep my job.

Yes, they like to suck me dry!

You sound pretty frustrated, but at the same time, pretty bitter over your admitted lack of excitement for algebra.

BigMac;158646
Throughout high school I noticed how the "smart students", whom algebra came easy for were praised by teachers. While the other students, such as myself, were tormented for not being better at it.

Tormented? Really? I somehow doubt that tormented is a good word to be using here. Did the teachers still expect you to learn algebra, and do the work? I'm sure. Was it hard for you? I'm sure. Was it annoying and probably difficult to understand and learn? I'm sure. That does not equal tormenting students who don't get it. Its a requirement, and the teacher is trying to do their job. Forcing you to learn it doesn't mean they're tormenting you. I'd like you to clarify what you mean if you really were tormented and the teacher honestly went out of their way to show a completely different and negative attitude towards you for not understanding algebra.

BigMac;158646
During my first algebra class after finishing high school a student asked the professor, “Why do we have to learn this? None of us here plan on working a job that requires us to know this.” The professor's response was, “You need to know this in order to get your degree, and you need your degree to get a good job.”

What kind of reasoning is that? What good is an education that has taught a student nothing of use to him?

Like its been said, there are things you're required to learn as a basic standard in society. There's no arguing that getting a college degree will often lead to a higher paying job, that most people consider “good” or “better”. Those words are subjective. To each their own. If you don't feel a job that pays you $40,000 a year is better than a job that pays $25,000, that's your prerogative, just as its someone else's to consider that job better. To get a degree, there are requirements that all students must meet. Algebra is one of them. Your situation is no different than a class you enjoy that's required and another student doesn't like. There are general education standards that universities require all students to meet in order to receive their degree. Its a rule. Its not someone trying to be mean to you or force you to do something you don't want to do. Its the same thing as them requiring you to get good grades in order to receive your degree. Maybe someone doesn't like studying, and doesn't enjoy getting A's and B's, so they get D's. Does that mean they should still get their degree?

Algebra is a basic math, that believe it or not, you use characteristics of in every day life. You may not like it, but its required. And it does teach you something of value. And you may say graduating high school “I don't plan on getting a job that requires me to use algebra” but you have no idea what will happen in your life as you move forward. You might end up loving a job that would require you to use algebra, but because you were 17 and thought you knew everything you would need to know in life, you decided not to take algebra because you didn't like it, so now you can't get that great job you wanted. I'm 24, and the job I have right now is not something I would have ever imagined myself doing. And I've been required to learn things to better perform my job. Is it always fun? No. Do you do it because its required, and you need your job to live comfortably? Yup.

You basically just sound like you have an issue with authority and with being told to do things. Unless you plan on opening your own business someday (which you would probably need a good grasp on math to do, hence algebra), you need to get used to having to do things you don't want to do, and being told what to do. I understand that one of your major complaints was just about the price of books and the underhanded ways that some classes use to make more money, but you really said a lot of things here that just made you sound immature about realizing that things can't always be the way you want them to be. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm trying to be helpful. Its something we all have to learn at some point. There are things you need to know in life that you may not think you need to know at the time, but somewhere down the line, you use that knowledge, even though you hated the class and thought it was a waste of your time.

I certainly understand what you're saying exo95er, and see the logic in it. My dad once told me something similar awhile back when I spoke of how difficult and demanding college was. He also said that college was like an “endurance run”. Though I notice many people see college that way. They view college as if it were a hurdle, and once you jump that hurdle, you're all set. You have now proven yourself a smart and hardworking individual.

However, if a person worked in college much harder than he would at a normal day to day job, doesn't that sort of misrepresent what that person really is? Shouldn't people only go to college if they're truly interested and willing to become the smart and hardworking individuals the college teaches them to be?

But yes, it does show employers that a college graduate has worked hard, been committed, and able to do the work that was given to him. But is that really important if so much of the work he committed himself to has little to no value and he most likely has no care to ever work that hard in his normal day life?

The professor of the college level English class I had last semester made us learn names. He would give exams in which we were required to know the names of authors, Greek Gods, and people throughout English Literature. I found myself studying this material for hours. The professor had warned us that only 13 out of 65 kids passed his class each semester on average. I was one of those 13, and passed with a C. Was I proud? No, mostly all the material I learned was a waste!

The experience didn't make me any smarter and/or hardworking, only showed that I could study. The English professor could have ripped a page out from a phone book and made copies to handout to us. Then for the exam have a name provided with instructions to write in the person's phone number, or have a phone number provided with instructions to write in the name of the person whom the phone number belongs to. That would have been just as difficult for us and irrelevant to helping us gain useful knowledge.

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No school teacher or college professor I have meet so far has ever said, "If you don't go to college, you're a loser.“ However, they have an attitude that makes me feel as though they're conveying that message.

On the days leading up to graduation from high school, there was lots of talk from students about their plans after graduation. And they were ALL speaking of going to college. I recall a girl saying to her friends, ”I don't know which college to go to, but I need to pick one. I don't want to be one of those losers, and not go to college.“

Where is this non-college graduates are ”losers“ attitude coming from? I heard during the 1960's teachers would tell students, ”You don't want to do n*gger work, you must get an education in order to make lots of money and live happily.“

Today it's the same thing, only ”n*gger work“ is called a ”bad job“. Doesn't that seem like a lot of pressure on students? Students are told by teachers that a ”good job“, which pays lots of money is what will make them happy, so get an education.

I truly think teachers and professors are making students feel forced into getting higher education by saying this. For this encourages arrogance among students. No student wants to be seen as a loser who didn't have the care or ability to go to college, so worked a ”bad job", and made less money and therefore lives a less happy life.

I hate how there are so many college graduates who brag about their degrees. All they're really saying is, “My life is so lame that the greatest thing I have to feel proud about is my college degree.” Thousands of people have degrees these days, it's not that big of an accomplishment anymore.

Sure it may be great for a student to know how well he can preform in college. I would barely pass algebra with a D in grade school. In college I received a B+ and a B for the two algebra classes I have had so far. I also received all A's and B's in mainly every class I have taken.

I'm surprised that I managed to pass college courses, but I'm not proud of it, nor of what I've learned from it. All the accomplishments and skills I'm most proud of having, I have learned outside of college, on my own.

To spend so much time and money on a degree that has provided such a small amount of useful knowledge and "shows" that you're a hardworking person will always seem wasteful to me.

From my experience, the majority of what you think you're learning in school is utterly worthless, it's the underlying lessons that are actually important (things like memorization skills, meeting deadlines, teamwork, research and fact-checking, crash-courses etc etc).

The GE subjects you learn are just to give you a well rounded education, whether you like it or not. As stupid as it may seem it's actually a good thing since most people don't actually go into college knowing exactly what they want to do with their lives, while others think they know only to change their minds at some point later in life. You wouldn't want to have to start your whole education over from scratch because you decided the career you chose isn't for you.

Eh, I'm probably rambling incoherently… I'm very tired, sorry.(*winston)

BigMac;158672
I hate how there are so many college graduates who brag about their degrees. All they're really saying is, “My life is so lame that the greatest thing I have to feel proud about is my college degree.” Thousands of people have degrees these days, it's not that big of an accomplishment anymore.

This kind of attitude is what people are referring to when they use the term “loser”. And again, I'm not being insulting. That's a lousy outlook to have on life. I really think you need to talk to someone. An advisor. A friend. A parent or grandparent. Your life outlook is so incredibly negative its honestly unbelievable. Its hard to tell if its jealousy over people's excitement over their degrees, or simply apathy on your part towards what lies ahead in life.

A college degree is a major accomplishment. Just because a lot of people have or do something does not mean its less of an accomplishment. Thousands of people have children too. Does that make it less of an accomplishment and life challenge? Working hard for 4 years and earning a degree from a University is something to be majorly proud of. Saying that these people have no life because they're proud of this accomplishment shows a lot of insight into your own life that you feel the need to attack people for being so excited about accomplishing something that is obviously a challenge for you.

Professors want their students to be as successful as possible. Like it or not, going to college and EARNING a degree, opens more doors for you to do that.

College isn't for everyone. Some because they have other careers in mind, some because they are too lazy, some because they just don't get it. Clearly you're upset about the attitude that college is an accomplishment for one of these reasons, because its a challenge for you. And clearly you think that its a waste of time. Why you bother to stay in college when you clearly hate it and think its not worth your time, is something you maybe should be talking to your advisor about. If there's something else you'd be happier doing and can live comfortably off of, then you should do that. Honestly. But rest assured, that if you stay in college, that “lame” degree that you're paying so much money to have the opportunity to earn right now, is going to be worth it to you in the end, once you learn a lot of things about life and how much that “lame” degree is actually worth.

Doctor Venkman;158667
I'd like you to clarify what you mean if you really were tormented

Every time homework, quizzes, and tests were graded the students with the best grades would say things such as, “Oh man, you're a dumbass. I kicked your ass with an 86”. The teachers would tell us to “do better” when we were trying hard. During parent teacher conferences, teachers would act like the students who did poorly were not trying hard enough and didn't make any attempt to improve. This caused fights and emotional turmoil between the students and their parents. When report cards came out, teachers would put comments aside of the student's grade such as, “Needs Improvements”, “Doesn't Meet Expectations”.

There was one student who would fail miserably at math. He loved wood shop though, and had great skill when working with his hands. One day he lost control and in a blind rage, throw a classroom chair while learning math. At the time, I thought he should just “tried hard enough” to at least pass the class.

Though I look back with an understanding now. He couldn't do it. It wasn't his fault. He simply wasn't able to understand something beyond his learning ability.

I have no idea where that student is now, but I sure hope he found a way to put his skills to good use. And isn't being categorized as a loser for not being a college graduate.

Any of the math that student did learn, I'm certain it's now gone from his memory. And if I were to retake the final exam from my last algebra class, I'd probably fail it with a grade around 30%. I'm sure more than half the math I learned is gone, only the usable math remains.

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As for the money resulting from college, I think that's just another sign of how wrong society is. All we're told is “money is good”. Money makes us happy, we can afford more comfortable lives with money. Does this attitude towards money help the world, or just make people desperate to make money, even at the cost of others?

Do you think the publishers of my algebra textbook care about money? They're willing to waste natural resources printing hundreds of unnecessary copies, only to place a new registration code on each one. Then the professors at colleges make the students register at the online website. thus forcing the students to spend money on new textbooks. And this is great for the publishers.

Rather than being resourceful and student friendly, the publishers' primary goal was to make money. Now they can afford more material possessions and live more comfortably. Of course, at the cost of the students, though who cares, the publishers have found a way to make money and so they're happy.

BigMac;158679
Every time homework, quizzes, and tests were graded the students with the best grades would say things such as, “Oh man, you're a dumbass. I kicked your ass with an 86”. The teachers would tell us to “do better” when we were trying hard. During parent teacher conferences, teachers would act like the students who did poorly were not trying hard enough and didn't make any attempt to improve. This caused fights and emotional turmoil between the students and their parents. When report cards came out, teachers would put comments aside of the student's grade such as, “Needs Improvements”, “Doesn't Meet Expectations”.

There was one student who would fail miserably at math. He loved wood shop though, and had great skill when working with his hands. One day he lost control and in a blind rage, throw a classroom chair while learning math. At the time, I thought he should just “tried hard enough” to at least pass the class.

Though I look back with an understanding now. He couldn't do it. It wasn't his fault. He simply wasn't able to understand something beyond his learning ability.

I have no idea where that student is now, but I sure hope he found a way to put his skills to good use. And isn't being categorized as a loser for not being a college graduate.

Any of the math that student did learn, I'm certain it's now gone from his memory. And if I were to retake the final exam from my last algebra class, I'd probably fail it with a grade around 30%. I'm sure more than half the math I learned is gone, only the usable math remains.

-

As for the money resulting from college, I think that's just another sign of how wrong society is. All we're told is “money is good”. Money makes us happy, we can afford more comfortable lives with money. Does this attitude towards money help the world, or just make people desperate to make money, even at the cost of others?

Do you think the publishers of my algebra textbook care about money? They're willing to waste natural resources printing hundreds of unnecessary copies, only to place a new registration code on each one. Then the professors at colleges make the students register at the online website. thus forcing the students to spend money on new textbooks. And this is great for the publishers.

Rather than being resourceful and student friendly, the publishers' primary goal was to make money. Now they can afford more material possessions and live more comfortably. Of course, at the cost of the students, though who cares, the publishers have found a way to make money and so they're happy.

Do you think that people who go back to college and get a PhD or a Master's shouldn't make more money than those who went to college and got a BA or BS? Its the same concept. People going to college are working towards a goal. That goal is to learn skills and information and gain knowledge that helps them to earn more money. This too is the idea behind a PhD or a Master's. If you think that its wrong for people to get more money by having a college degree then surely you must think that doctors and lawyers shouldn't make more money for their extra degrees. Money is not the key to happiness, but it makes life easier and more comfortable. That's a basic understanding of reality. Things like houses and services and basic human needs like food and water cost money. If you have more money, then it will not be stressing to afford these things, and thus your life is easier.

And as for a student throwing a chair in a “blind rage”. Maybe he didn't understand it, but to say he “couldn't do it” is a total cop out to allow for that kind of ridiculous behavior. Yes, some things are hard to grasp. I had issues myself with math. But to try to claim that a student can throw a chair in “blind rage” because they don't understand a concept is ridiculous. And yes, that student was probably not trying hard enough. You don't lose your temper over something like that when you're trying hard. And you don't throw a chair because you're upset that you can't understand something. You throw a chair because you're acting like a child and want someone to just stop trying to get you to understand something by showing your anger over it. If you don't understand something you apply yourself and work harder to learn. You work with the teacher to understand the concepts and find ways to relate to them as best you can. You do your best. If you still don't get it then you don't get a good grade in the class. But you don't throw chairs in a childish temper tantrum because you “can't do it”.