Personally I think calling this guy a “victim” is flat-out retarded, with all do respect. OBVIOUSLY he had mental problems, normal people don't commit mass murder! It was a cold-blooded, calculated killing-spree this guy carried out, and I think he was evil to the max. Giving him a free pass because of some “illness” is silly to me. He was no more “ill” than Ed Gein (Leatherface), or Charles Manson, or Saddam Hussein, etc., etc., etc. At some point in this guy's life he had to make a series of “concious decisions”, leading up to this incident. I've been clinically depressed, and I've done some kinda-violent things before, and trust me… “I” was the one to blame. “I” gave into dark temptations, just like this guy (though not nearly as serious). People need to own up to personal responsibility instead of using this “illness” crap as an excuse. Maybe if this guy saw a shrink, and got doped up on lots of drugs it would have helped a little, but NOTHING can excuse the macabre murders he ultimately commited. Period.

Ghoulishfright
At some point in this guy's life he had to make a series of “concious decisions”, leading up to this incident. I've been clinically depressed, and I've done some kinda-violent things before, and trust me… “I” was the one to blame. “I” gave into dark temptations, just like this guy (though not nearly as serious). People need to own up to personal responsibility instead of using this “illness” crap as an excuse. Maybe if this guy saw a shrink, and got doped up on lots of drugs it would have helped a little, but NOTHING can excuse the macabre murders he ultimately commited. Period.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm not excusing what he did. What he did was abhorrent, and my sympathies lie with all who were affected by this terrible shooting.

What I am saying is that with drugs, and with treatment, it would have done more than help a little. It would have stopped him from doing it, full stop. The guy didn't get the treatment he should have.

If you've been diagnosed with clinical depression, then you are most likely taking anti-depressants, or drugs to prevent manic episodes. He obviously didn't have the treatment you are receiving, and if he did, it wasn't working. There were plenty of warning signs building up to this incident, and the University was aware of his history of mental health problems. He was admitted to a mental health facility in 2005, so he should have been re-admitted when those warning signs began to show themselves again. He should have received proper counselling from a professional and not an English professor.

Of course he was the one to blame for the murders. I'm not saying he is not to blame. He made a conscious decision to buy the guns and the ammunition, and he was personally responsible for the tragedy. But I am also saying that he was ill, and he needed treatment. If he had received it, this horrible event might never have happened.

While we're at it let's say a little pray for those 193 people that died in Iraq yesterday….

XTremeLurker
What I am saying is that with drugs, and with treatment, it would have done more than help a little. It would have stopped him from doing it, full stop. The guy didn't get the treatment he should have.

Well… it can be speculated treatment may have helped prevent it… but we don't know for sure that it would've stopped it from happening.

StayinPuft
While we're at it let's say a little pray for those 193 people that died in Iraq yesterday….

Duely noted, StayingPuft.

Ghoulishfright
Personally I think calling this guy a “victim” is flat-out retarded, with all do respect. OBVIOUSLY he had mental problems, normal people don't commit mass murder! It was a cold-blooded, calculated killing-spree this guy carried out, and I think he was evil to the max. Giving him a free pass because of some “illness” is silly to me. He was no more “ill” than Ed Gein (Leatherface), or Charles Manson, or Saddam Hussein, etc., etc., etc. At some point in this guy's life he had to make a series of “concious decisions”, leading up to this incident. I've been clinically depressed, and I've done some kinda-violent things before, and trust me… “I” was the one to blame. “I” gave into dark temptations, just like this guy (though not nearly as serious). People need to own up to personal responsibility instead of using this “illness” crap as an excuse. Maybe if this guy saw a shrink, and got doped up on lots of drugs it would have helped a little, but NOTHING can excuse the macabre murders he ultimately commited. Period.

not here to defend him as I understand very well that what he did was very wrong, but don't forget to put the blame too on a retarded government who lets anybody to own a gun… because that's wrong too… they could actually use some pills too…
being clinically depress is not the same has having a serious mental problem when people cannot control themselves or cannot control what's happening or what's going thru inside their heads… just so you know…
and how can you forget to name president George W. Bush… he's the sickest one of them all, actually more sick than all of those combined… he never gets blood on his hands, just oil, so nothing can excuse the macabre murders he indirectly commits while getting away with them.
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution reads : “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”
and the fifth commandment reads : “Thou shalt not kill”
but, who are we to judge?
“For he knows how we are made. He remembers that we are dust.”

XTremeLurker
Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm not excusing what he did…

Hey man, I wasn't singling you out, I was just talking generally for the most part. As far as being clinically depressed goes, I only had minor clinical depression, and refused to take “drugs” for it. I believe in self control and being responsible for one's own actions (difficult as it sometimes is). That being said, I'll concede that maybe taking pills, but moreover having counciling could have prevented this Cho Seung-Hui from killing those people. But the truth is we'll never know. He could have had all the counciling in the world, but unless he wanted to change I'm doubtful he would've been cured “full stop”. But you're absolutely right, the warning signs were there, and he should have had more treatment…

fome
…but don't forget to put the blame too on a retarded government who lets anybody to own a gun… because that's wrong too…

Fome, fyi the government doesn't let just anyone own a gun. This guy got his guns legally, because even though he was a spooky bastard he had NO prior criminal history. I DO think gun laws should be more strict/thorough, but law-abiding citizens have the flat-out right to bear arms, no doubt. And let's not get distracted from this issue, by ranting on about Bush for example. I'm sick of the guy too, but really now, come one, what the hell does he have to do with this??…

EDIT: sorry for double-posting

Mod Edit: No problem, it's easy for a Mod to undo that. - Kingpin

fome
not here to defend him as I understand very well that what he did was very wrong, but don't forget to put the blame too on a retarded government who lets anybody to own a gun… because that's wrong too… they could actually use some pills too…
being clinically depress is not the same has having a serious mental problem when people cannot control themselves or cannot control what's happening or what's going thru inside their heads… just so you know…
and how can you forget to name president George W. Bush… he's the sickest one of them all, actually more sick than all of those combined… he never gets blood on his hands, just oil, so nothing can excuse the macabre murders he indirectly commits while getting away with them.
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution reads : “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”
and the fifth commandment reads : “Thou shalt not kill”
but, who are we to judge?
“For he knows how we are made. He remembers that we are dust.”

If you wish to continue that point then I advice continuing it in a new, separate topic… I feel this thread shouldn't be used for airing grievances against George Bush and the American government no matter how valid they may be.

Is it me or does President Bush's claim of terrorism is outside of this country ridiculous? we have enough people here that does this shit. It is ridiculous.

The thing about college campuses is that frankly, they are TO OPEN. I mean you can walk onto one and kill somebody in a dorm/frat house, then nobody knows you were there if the campus is large. I think ALL campuses should have walls and one or two exits/entrances with guards on duty 24/7.

I feel for the families of the dead and I hope them well.

Oh, did you guys hear about the shithead on the net that threatened to do like this guy did, on the same day it happened?

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/46602

This f***ing idiot is so pathetic. He looks like he couldn't get a date to save his life and then talks this shit and has NO respect for the 32 dead. I can't stand people like this. (*rant) (*rant) (*rant) (*rant) (*rant) (*rant)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/VATech/story?id=3050483&page=1

Seems like he may have been a paranoid schizophrenic. If that's the case its much more than just him acting on depressed feelings, he should have gotten the proper treatment for his illness.

The shooting was horrible and I'm not trying to defend his actions in any way but if this is true he was probably suffering from delusions and possibly hallucinations that made this situation come about. His rant about how rich society has “put him down” seems to go along with the paranoid part, he had no real grievence he was just clinically insane.

I agree that proper treatment was not a 100% guarantee of preventing this but someone should have seen the warning signs, and the fact that he was institutionalized should have warranted more caution but still no one could have seen this coming because if they did they would have stopped it.

My thoughts and prayers are still with the victims and their families, and all those who were effected by this tragedy.

Kingpin
Well… it can be speculated treatment may have helped prevent it… but we don't know for sure that it would've stopped it from happening.

Maybe you are right, maybe we don't know for sure that it would have stopped it from happening. But it certainly would have helped if he had been placed in a mental health facility rather than remained in a public University. It would have been very difficult for him to purchase guns and ammunition if he'd been closely monitored and under the supervision of mental health professionals, and by being placed in a mental health facility, it would have removed him totally from the University environment, which seemed to exacerbate the situation rather than calm it.

All in all, if the warning signs were taken seriously, and if he'd been treated properly by mental health professionals, I seriously doubt he would have even had the opportunity to plan and carry out the massacre, because he'd have been much more closely monitored than he was in the University, and the desire to do it would in the very least have been muted by the controlled drugs he'd have been prescribed. So, if anything, proper treatment in a facility would have drastically reduced the chances of him being able to carry out the atrocity in the manner that he did.