I don't know KP, Vigo creating the slime just doesn't make sense to me.

Lets start with Vigo's known abilities (while trapped in the painting)… He can posses multiple people (but not necessarily control them simultaneously) provided that they've made eye contact with the painting (Janosz and Ray), and control them well beyond the confines of the museum, he can shoot energy bolts from his eyes, and he can cause spontaneous combustion (at least within range of people he's possessed). Ok, that seems fairly powerful, but is he powerful enough to cast a spell that effects the majority of the city (i.e. the slime)?

First of all, if he's capable of the above powers, what has he been waiting for? Why has he waited centuries to return to life now? The painting hasn't been crated up since it's creation, someone had to discover it and eventually ship it to the US, so why hasn't he been possessing and manipulating people since day one? Which leads too…

What would he need the slime for anyway? Vigo's goal is to find a host body so that he can be reborn… so where does the slime specifically come in? The possessed Janosz delivered Oscar to Vigo, not the slime. If the slime is so important to Vigo's goals why wait until now to create it (remember, he's had centuries, but not in the same location, so if he created the slime in New York it was a more recent event). He doesn't need the slime to spawn minions… again, he can posses people.

Why didn't he just cut-to-the-chase and posses Dana? She's had direct eye contact and prolonged exposure to the painting… Why didn't he posses Peter alongside Ray? Why didn't he posses the entire museum staff?

Why even fixate on Dana and Oscar?

See to me, Vigo's actions are not that of a powerful mad genius whose been planning his return for centuries… instead, they strike me as acts of weak desperation, of sudden opportunity.

I propose that the slime is a natural occurrence, that probably got a severely major boost when Gozer came to town (just as the spiritual activity originally had). The Gozer incident undoubtedly caused extreme turmoil within the city, and seeing as the containment unit had blown, and the GB's went out of business shortly after, there was probably a large amount of negative spiritual energy in the air years after the fact (all of which ultimately fuelled the slime).

The slime has the ability to make spirits manifest (the Scoleri Bros., Titanic, etc.)… Vigo's spirit was in some part attached to his painting but dormant. The growing presence of the slime awakened his spirit and he immediately began searching for a way to escape and be reborn, but he was still relatively weak.

Vigo wanted a young body to be reborn into and as luck would have it Dana (a staff member of the museum… i.e. within easy reach) had Oscar. Unfortunately, Dana's willpower would be too strong for Vigo in his weakened state, so he instead waited for a safe opportunity to posses Janosz (who was emotionally fragile from being recently rejected by Dana).

You'll recall that the first possession didn't fully take as Joanosh was still able to question Vigo, forcing Vigo to give it a second go (the energy bolts). Later Vigo would even prey on Jonosh's weaknesses (his desire for Dana) to ensure his loyalty.

Since he had awakened, Vigo had been slowly drawing energy from the slime but was also fueling it as he was such a purely negative spirit. The slime probably absorbed Vigo's desire to use Oscar as a host and began to independently reach out to the baby (the runaway carriage, and the bathtub… because honestly, just how would Vigo benefit from either of those incidences… by slowly pulling Oscar down the drain? And again, if he could just abduct babies with slime, why fixate on Oscar).

Anyway, enter the GB's, where once again Vigo has to slyly posses Ray, who once again probably has the most vulnerable personality of the four GBs.

Vigo continues to draw more and more power from the slime, which is why it flows to the museum and not away from it (“away” being the direction it would flow if Vigo were the source)… or, I suppose, the slime may just be drawn to Vigo… It's not 100% clear if Vigo can manipulate the slime or if the slime acts independently to feed off of and protect the largest negative force in NY city (again, using the slime to capture Oscar doesn't make much sense, and Vigo is never shown directly manipulating the slime).

Yadda yadda yadda, and you know the rest.

None of Vigo's actions really display any real calculation, or a particularly high level of power. I just don't think he was capable of creating the slime.(*winston)

Warning, essay-length post.

Cosmic-Riptide;168789
so why hasn't he been possessing and manipulating people since day one? Which leads too…

The most reasonable answer would be that he's been building up his power. In the early days he may not have even been able to manifest at all in the painting, and for all intents and purposes appeared to be nothing more than a ugly oil self-portrait.

But for what Vigo would need the slime for, I'd harken to Egon's explanation of the Mandala Nodes, that they were a key to drawing power to something bigger.

Vigo was weakened by good emotion, he lost his hold on the Ghostbusters and even his manfestation out of the canvas when people began to sing Auld Lang Syne as the clock struck midnight. Additionally, the good vibes weakened the slime shell over the museum, showing that there was a clear connection between the level of Vigo's power and the density of the slime (in a deleted scene some construction workers sang Kumbya, opening a crack the size of the eye of a needle, or something so rediculously small).

His slime (in my opinion) was both generated by and absorbed the negative emotions of the city so it could be fed back to him.

The possessed Janosz delivered Oscar to Vigo

I admit I've never been convinced that was actually Janosz himself, I never bought the concept he could turn himself into a ghost.

why wait until now to create it

Somewhat jokey answer: Because he's never been to as angry a city as New York before. Jokey answer #2: Maybe part of the reason he delayed was because he was looking for the perfect combination of mother and child…

More sensibly, it could easily tie into the prophecy he uttered, and whatever sorcery he performed back before he died. Without knowing, it's anyone's guess.

He doesn't need the slime to spawn minions… again, he can posses people.

Except he created the thing in Dana's bathtub, and took control of Oscar's buggy. Not to mention the decapitated heads he conjured up in the disused train tunnels as the Ghostbusters got closer to the river of slime.

Why didn't he just cut-to-the-chase and posses Dana?

Strength of will? Dana is no doubt someone of a more significant will power than Janosz, and the bond between mother and child would probably make it even stronger.

And no offense intended at Ray, but being so enthralled at the supernatural, and even the concept of it, he was probably an easy mind to take over. He went after Janosz because Janosz was attracted to Dana (which is why he didn't bother possessing an entire museum of staff, which would also obviously be a major drain on power, and presumably, concentration).

That, and maybe Vigo, in his own twisted way doesn't consider it “sporting” to take over the woman he wants to turn into his new mother.

Peter alongside Ray? Why didn't he posses the entire museum staff?

Why even fixate on Dana and Oscar?

Because the slime on it's own was never going to get him out of the painting, it was what made him powerful enough to permanently inhabit Oscar's body.

You'll recall that the first possession didn't fully take as Joanosh was still able to question Vigo, forcing Vigo to give it a second go

That “first go” as you describe it wasn't an attempt at possesion, the fact Janosz is so visibly terrified shows he was still in control of his faculties, if you ask me. I'm sure you'd be a bit annoyed at someone dabbing a brush in your eye.

because honestly, just how would Vigo benefit from either of those incidences… by slowly pulling Oscar down the drain?

Were it not for the New York traffic he could've either had the carriage roll to the museum and bring Oscar to him, and the bathtub could've conceiveable made it's way to the museum, were it able to free itself from the piping (it was certainly able to free itself from the wall of Dana's bathroom).

And again, if he could just abduct babies with slime, why fixate on Oscar.

Because to him, Oscar was perfect, probably due in part to Dana.

“away” being the direction it would flow if Vigo were the source

Unless it was feeding him…

It's not 100% clear if Vigo can manipulate the slime

I think the film proved it pretty conclusively.

There hasn't been anything to suggest (in the movies) that the puddles of slime, or even the larger river had their own conciousness or intelligence, they're almost completely inert in the first film (they're like the equivilant of ectoplasmic primordial soup, the potential for something to be created, but not a creature in their own right), and even though the mood slime varient reacts to strong emotions, positive and negative, it doesn't really shown any kind of sentience. The samples in the second film largely produced something either due to the human element (Judge Wexler, the terrified citizens of the city) or by Vigo's manipulations.



Yeah, I've had some time to think about this. Thing is, until the game came out, I'm not sure if anyone ever really questioned the relation of Vigo and the pink slime… and I don't like the game's explanation because of it modifying a part of the existing Ghostbusters mythology.

Doc Fritz;168702
Gozer's concubine.

I can think of at least a few people who would pay good money for a game involving Gozer's concubine…

And probably the worst of them all, the Video Game retconning in a connection between Gozer and Vigo by saying the slime was really created by one of Gozer's worshippers–thus undoing the most major thing GB2 did right.

Hmmmmm…you pose an interesting argument. BUT! Why did Vigo end up in the Manhattan Museum of Art and not, say, the Louvre? I like to think that Vigo/the painting was following the slime trail as a bloodhound picks up the scent. Having already worked with slime–or something like it–in his lifetime, Vigo would easily be familiar with it, know what it is, and manipulate things around him so that he could be quickly shipped to NYC from wherever his point of origin was. (Warehouse 13, anyone?)

BTW, Kingpin, why exactly can't a very powerful magician also be a shameless opportunist? If you see a windfall, take it by the horns, I always say.

I love this thread, it's very interesting.

Just a thought…is it possible that slime, in whatever form or color, has existed for centuries, since Vigo was alive…but that Shandor just found a way to manufacture it in the 20th century, as opposed to creating it?

I think its possible that slime could've existed in Vigo's day and age, then disappeared or just lay dormant until Shandor discovered it. Then perhaps Shandor could've whipped up his own batches, attracting Vigo to NYC in 1989.

I'm convinced the slime is something any spirit can use as a doorway back. for instance, the scolari brothers came out of the slime to attack the person who sentenced them to death. This had nothing to do with vigo, the GBs, or oscar. the scolari brothers didn't flee in search for the baby, they wreaked havoc on everyone in the court.

Wouldn't the rest of the ghosts that sprouted from the slime immediately search for the baby and protect the museum. If it truly was vigo's slime wouldn't he make it so he could have his followers come threw and aid him. This didn't happen, spirits that were around started animating, Vigo being one of them.

Well as I said I think the slime is a substance that can be created and used to harness paranormal powers or allow ghost to manifest with.

The pink slime was vigo's creaton that he may have used in the medieval ages, while Shandor made his own variant which was black. Vigo probably used and manipulated it with magic, while Shandor had to take a scientific route (remember his island with the huge slime lab?)

my take has always been that the slime was self-created….that the negative energy of the city created it,and it just grew and grew and grew….and the spirit of Vigo was attracted to it,and because of that he was able to use it to come back…BUT,being a creature/entity of such evil,such power,he needed a HUGE amount to come back fully…as it grows,his powers grow more and more…he starts off just able to wiggle around a bit in the painting,but them ore slime manifests itself,he's able to possess people,create ghosts,and finally,with it at it's apex (New Years Eve) he's able to physical reenter our world (but,being a spirit,he still needs a physical form to truly walk amongst us,i.e. Oscar) …

that said,this stuff could've been building up for a long,long,LONG time…centuries,if not millenia …and i always looked at Shandor's involvement as being that he found it,probably the actual growing river,when he was doing his architectural work and planning,and being an occultist realized the power of this stuff,and took some back (probably quite a lot) to the island mansion,where he began experimenting on it and created his own “brand” of the stuff…
my other thought is,this stuff could literall be EVERYWHERE! New York was,and is,hardly the only city in the world to have a lot of negative emotions and just general badness going on in it…. and if this stuff DID just kinda “self-generate” due to the negativity,well,then,it's quite feasible,if not probable,that there could be lots of slime river's,lake's,lagoon's,etc. under cities and towns all over the world…